Hlaalu, Redoran, Telvanni: Which is the best House to join in Morrowind?

[Emma]

Which is the best House to join in Morrowind?

I have mostly played as a Redoran, but as I'm setting up one thief and one mage now, I suspect the thief one 'should' be Hlaalu and the mage one a Telvanni.

[LilKid]

Telvanni!!!!

Ehehe.. maybe because like you, I never tried any other house

Both other houses doesnt appeal to me honestly.. so I end up rejoining Telvani every single time 

[Seeker]

Salutations!

I'd always say Telvanni at first, but right now I am trying out Haouse Hlaalu with Rakiel the Bosmer and so far, it is quite nice. Wait and see shall be my mantra from now on, then...

Seeker

[Candyman]

I like Hlaalu or Redoran best. Hlaalu is pretty fun, and there's no character in all Morrowind quite like "uncle" Crassius Curio. Redoran has some nice quests, but the characters didn't seem quite as unique as those in Hlaalu.

Telvanni always seemed too stuck up for me. Not to mention that it's way too easy to get into Telvanni, they're supposed to be the ones that hate outlanders the most.

What I want is to get into Indoril (after all, Nerevar was head of the house 3550 years ago), or infiltrate Dres and destroy the slave trade from the inside!

[Dark Diva]

I've only ever played Telvanni with Killyara. She liked the fact that she could kill her superiors and not be sanctioned for it

[Master Sam]

*Bangs fist on the table*
TELVANNI!
Telvanni are the best! The best Stronghold, Nice leaders (er..yeah) and all that jazz. Go Telvanni! 

[Not Quite Dead]

I've mostly played with the Great House Telvanni, so my answer will be partial...

*Maeglin of Dunlostir, member of the Great House Telvanni gets up and smiles to the young lady:*

"Are you an independant or investigating nature? Are you interested in the mighty Arcanes of Magicka? Are dwemer devices more for you than 'stuff which smoke from time to time? you should obviously join the Telvanni. As you rightly said, Hlaalu are just a bunch of well-dressed greedy thieves, and... well you've worked for Redoran, didn't you? They're very nice people, but... they're just mercenaries. Very useful to keep things (they watch sandstorm like no one else), but very limited when it comes to a more serious matter, like thinking.

You shouldn't pay too much attention to the inept comments of hlaalu footmen and have instead a look at the "Affairs of Wizards". There you'll see that if anyone of good will can join us, only the more intelligent and hem! pragmatic people fit to advancement. After all, scum and rabble can be of some use to, let's say, carry alambics and clean laboratories (there's a far better use for slaves: after all, they cannot take an interesting part to your experiment and then sweep up the place, can they?).

We know that the following consideration is of little interest for someone dedicated to knowledge, but if power means something to you, you'll be glad to learn that our House will provide you some of the mightiest artefacts of all Morrowind, as reward for your services. I remember the day my faithful Mouth 'Fast' Eddy (I admit he's a pretty stupid name, but he is a resourceful fellow.) brought me the Ring of Equity who was very useful when it comes to spells with lichs, colleagues or mad wizards, sometimes the three in one...

You've perhaps thought about joining the Mages Guild? It could be interesting for you to have a closer look at that lackeys of the Emperor, more interested in eating four huge meals a day than in investigating the Sphere of Mind. I advise you to enjoy a little conversation with their current Arch-Mage, Trebonius. He's a bright specimen of imperial mage. Then come back here, and we'll speak about your first duties."

[Jenn]

I have played all three Houses, and each has their own unique things to offer. How you being a member affects how people all over the land react to you. No one other than Telvanni really like them, but for a Mage there is really no other House. The quest are great, the benefits cool, the lack of travel options a bit daunting, but then your a Mage, duh, use your skills!! 

Hlaalu is very cool for any stealth related character, good benefits, bit of trouble for those that are in the Thieves guild though, since you have to deal with the whole Cammona Tong/Thieves Guild thing, especially with what you might do to the people in the Concil Club later on.  The Hlaalu get a bit upset when you do that, so might join the House -after- that, or just not do that quest at all. Their quest are easily accessible and have good travel to and from for one that is mostly a walking character.

Redoran was interesting, very noble House, or should I say a bit stuck up, all very much for honour and combat, if you don't have a combat character you might even find it hard to get in. The quests are far flung but doable, the stronghold is well basically out in the middle of no where. 

There are mods out there for easier travel and stronghold improvements, regardless of which House you choose might try getting the upgraded versions of those mods,  makes playing them much more fun.

And hey, there are mods out there that will let you play ALL three Houses, so you might not have to pick at all 

But over all I would have to say I like Telvanni and Hlaalu the best, depending on the character, but I do not join them early in the game, I wait and work on the Guild a bit first. 

[Apophis2412]

Redoran all the way.

I kind of like the whole feel of aristocarcy it gives.

Telvanni is weird, with their towers and everything
Hlallu is just plain idiotic and insane. Dram Bero, Carrius Curio and that Nord councilor (Half-Troll or something) are really wacko's

[Sterling]

Redoran all the way.

I kind of like the whole feel of aristocarcy it gives.

Telvanni is weird, with their towers and everything
Hlallu is just plain idiotic and insane. Dram Bero, Carrius Curio and that Nord councilor (Half-Troll or something) are really wacko's

That´s what´s fun with them!

+best quests, easy to access all the way!

Telvanni and Redoran are stuck up and too arrogant with a few exceptions so no...Hlalluu all the way!

[Apophis2412]

Gameplaywise  : yes

lore wise: no
A chest of gold coins can easily buy the loyalty of house hlaalu. I mean I got hortator by stripping in front one of the councilors.

And I have painful memories of house hlaalu.
1. The first NPC that killed me: a hlaalu guard in Balmora
2. Giving Curio a kiss. 

[Sterling]

Gameplaywise  : yes

lore wise: no
A chest of gold coins can easily buy the loyalty of house hlaalu. I mean I got hortator by stripping in front one of the councilors.

And I have painful memories of house hlaalu.
1. The first NPC that killed me: a hlaalu guard in Balmora
2. Giving Curio a kiss. 

There are "honourable" solutions to most of the quests!

Curio...................if he had touched me his balls would be non existant!!!

He´s a true weirdo and someone in Bethesda got a warped sense of humor!

[Candyman]

I'm with Sterling. Hlaalu is the most fun because it has the most eccentric characters. Yes, it's easy to get into, but it's supposed to be the house most open to outlanders. They also have some interesting quests (I like quests that use skill and brains instead of combat).

And I would have run Curio through with Trueflame if he had ever touched my character also. Good thing for him that he has some restraint. 

[Gewibor]

Only Redoran so far.
But I've created a mage and a thief, later on they will enter Telvanni respectiveley Hlaalu.
Just to satisfiy my curiosity of these houses.

[Emma]

Hmm... sounds as if Hlaalu could be a lot of fun 

Hmm... better use the Better Bodies mod if I am to strip in front of the counsilors 



How about the Imperial legion? Is that enjoyable, too? Never played it, got so upset when a guy tried to tell me which armor I was to use HMPH!!! 

[Sterling]

Hmm... sounds as if Hlaalu could be a lot of fun 

Hmm... better use the Better Bodies mod if I am to strip in front of the counsilors 



How about the Imperial legion? Is that enjoyable, too? Never played it, got so upset when a guy tried to tell me which armor I was to use HMPH!!! 

It is!

That´s just Curio.....and he´s.......

The imperial legion ha´s some fun quests but are best suited for the warriortype ie for example the last quest is solved by you in the arena!

[Emma]

What is there more to join then? Together with Constance, I'm joining Thieves Guild. Could be fun, I think


What's Morag Tong like?

[Seeker]

Hail, Emma!  

At the moment, I play the Legion missions with Lucretia the Legionnaire (Surprise!  ) and have played some of them before with  Zargoth-Yar, my Dunmer Paladin. I have enjoyed them quite a bit so far, but one has to keep in mind that most are fairly straightforward and aimed at fighter characters. I most liked the missions, Darius gives you in Gnisis. Aqcuiring a land deed from a dunmer widow (by force or not?  ) and uncovering a plot by anti-imperialist guards who formed a secret society was great fun. I'll see how it develops in the other forts - so far: I can recommend the missions, if you have the right staunchly pro-imperial character.   ...

Concerning the armor, I was also very irritated by that, as I so much wanted to use Jeremy's beautiful creations on this one. Luckily, there is a mod named "Signet Ring" that is worn in addition to every armor you deem to be fitting for your character. If you wear this ring while talking to Imperial officers, they will treat you as if you were wearing the required "duty uniform"!   Imho a must-have if you want to be an Imperial Crony (TM) but still make your own design chioces...

Seeker

[Gewibor]

Imperial Legion: It's true, the armor-thing is a little bit anoying, not to forget, it is military . But the quests arn't bad.

Morag Tong: It is truly boring to me, just runing around and kill one after the other, that's all

[Emma]

I'm not so much irritated over that I actually have to wear that armor... It's more that I get sooooooo aaaaaaaarrgghhh.... mad when that idiot who is supposed to be my boss interferes with how I'm dressed. It makes me want to beat him up, but I reckon it's not a good idea to beat up ones bosses, not even in Morrowind :p  

I think I'll add companion sharing to the guy, and then I dress him up in harem-trousers, just to get my revenge!  

The plot do sound fun, though... although I do have a problem with the 'pro-imperial' part  

[Jenn]

I liked the Morag Tong, was the first Guild I actually played all the way though, yes it is a lot of running around killing people, but it's not always that simple, especially all the side quests the GM sends you on, very cool, though kinda hard with all the shrines you have to go play in to get the pieces. There is also a mod out there so that you can actually finish that quest, haven't tried it yet, but I was always curious exactly what all those things were for

[Seeker]

Almsivi, Emma!

The plot do sound fun, though... although I do have a problem with the 'pro-imperial' part  

I thought so. That was the reason I didn't finish the missions with the Dunmer and had to invent a new character -Lucretia- to have someone who really cared for the Empire and wanted to further their goals in Morrowind...to be honest, even now, I have some doubts from quest to quest   - I have to admit that I simply am more sympathetically inclined toward the Dunmer Culture and their plight...

Donning an Ashlander garb,

Seeker

[Emma]

Same here . Long live the Dunmers, let's send the imperials bak to Cyrodiil

....uhm... I guess we are all going to Cyrodiil when Oblivion arrives...

...sooner or later, that is.

[Emma]

I liked the Morag Tong, was the first Guild I actually played all the way though, yes it is a lot of running around killing people, but it's not always that simple, especially all the side quests the GM sends you on, very cool, though kinda hard with all the shrines you have to go play in to get the pieces. There is also a mod out there so that you can actually finish that quest, haven't tried it yet, but I was always curious exactly what all those things were for

You cannot ever join Cammona Tong, can you??

[Seeker]

Same here . Long live the Dunmers, let's send the imperials bak to Cyrodiil

....uhm... I guess we are all going to Cyrodiil when Oblivion arrives...

...sooner or later, that is.

Dang, didn't think of that! 

I'll have to get an imperial suit of armor for camouflage reasons, PRONTO...! 

Seeker

[Emma]

Ask the guy in Gnisis, I'm sure he'll give you a nice imperial outfit, suitable for Oblivion 

[Jenn]

You know, and the funny things is, the first time I tried Hlaalu and had to get naked for Curio wasn't fun, but coming back the next time and him not talking to me, I thought ok, he wants me to strip again *mutter* But when I did he goes "Ewww, your naked!" I about killed the guy.

And no, outlanders can't, least not that I have found, I would like to, just to try it

[Sterling]

About the legion armor.....one of the first things i do when i tinker with the armormods i get is to give them the script for legion armor!

Morag Tong quests are to much like exicutions for me but the ones searching for the godess belongings are fun!

[Emma]

You know, and the funny things is, the first time I tried Hlaalu and had to get naked for Curio wasn't fun, but coming back the next time and him not talking to me, I thought ok, he wants me to strip again *mutter* But when I did he goes "Ewww, your naked!" I about killed the guy.

[Dark Diva]

Morag Tong - is my favorite guild. There's the fact that it's very up front about sending you off to kill people (not telling you to convert them or get money from them when they really only want them dead.) Plus, playing through that guild I've seen more of Morrowind then I would have otherwise

As for the houses - which house you choose also depends on your character. For example vampires are readily accepted in Telvanni but they have problem with people from the mages guild.

[Candyman]

Has anyone tried the Temple? They always seemed a bit too fanatical for my taste (in the same way that the Legion is a bit fanatical about the Empire), but I can see how they might have some good quests.

I'm really going to have to make a save game where I can go and join each faction, complete their quests, then reload to the old save.

[cdcooley]

Has anyone tried the Temple? They always seemed a bit too fanatical for my taste (in the same way that the Legion is a bit fanatical about the Empire), but I can see how they might have some good quests.

I love the Temple.  I've never considered the quests particularly fanatical.  You make some pilgrimages, heal a few people, convince a few others to change their behavior, recover some artifacts, kill some daedra worshipers and vampires, and eventually do a little daedra worshipping of your own.

[LilKid]

The MT is good for the webspinner quest ... I became the GM for it and the writ just stop.. I've read somewhere that they do have writ for the good captain in Moonmoth.. and I just stop joining it in my later char 

[Apophis2412]

I think I'll add companion sharing to the guy, and then I dress him up in harem-trousers, just to get my revenge!  

Something tells me he wouldn't even mind.


The imperial legion was fun. I really liked the quests.

When I was doing the temple quests I had a strange feeling. I had ust finished the Tribunal main quest. 
I mean, I killed one of their gods.

[Emma]

Has anyone tried the Temple? They always seemed a bit too fanatical for my taste (in the same way that the Legion is a bit fanatical about the Empire), but I can see how they might have some good quests.

I'm really going to have to make a save game where I can go and join each faction, complete their quests, then reload to the old save.

I'm the archmaster of the Temple!
Apart from the annoyiing first Pilgrim quest, and the arrogant way people treated me from start, i liked these quest a lot, and they also had some good rewards. Best reward is that the Ordinators sounds so funny when they try to be humble and admiring towards my character

I think I'll add companion sharing to the guy, and then I dress him up in harem-trousers, just to get my revenge! 

Something tells me he wouldn't even mind.

Urgh, didn't think of THAT!!

(Now I'm gonna have night mares tonight... )

[Apophis2412]

Has anyone tried the Temple? They always seemed a bit too fanatical for my taste (in the same way that the Legion is a bit fanatical about the Empire), but I can see how they might have some good quests.

I'm really going to have to make a save game where I can go and join each faction, complete their quests, then reload to the old save.

Ebony Mail 

The temple is really nice to play. It has really diverse quests. From curing the sick, to artifact hunting to cleansing out a ruin full of vampires

[Jenn]

Regardless of which House or Guild you choose I hate that is all just stops when you get the top rank, I mean you should be getting orders to pass around to the lower people or something at least, a journal update every week or so with a new writ, or some trouble within the House, or a new contract for the Fighters or Mage's guild, SOMETHING :(

[Candyman]

Best reward is that the Ordinators sounds so funny when they try to be humble and admiring towards my character

Now that does sound good. Sign me up! 

Though it does sound weird in a way. After all, part of being the Nerevarine is to bring down the Tribunal!

[Emma]

Hmm... is that really valid? Who says nerevarine has to bring down the Tribunal?

[Candyman]

Well... actually, Azura does. Way back when she cursed the Tribunal for using Kagrenac's Tools on the Heart of Lokham, and prophesised that one day Nerevar would return to punish the Triune. Which happens – by the end of the game Alamaxia is dead, and Vivec is slowly losing his powers, and the power of the Temple (from both within and without) is in upheaval.

[Nostra1]

For me it all depends on the character.  I tend to create battle+mage type characters (the most recent is a Ranger but really only in name as he lives in a house), I usually associate to fighter magic sort of guilds and houses.  I usually go the route of Redoran/Mage's Guild as it seems its one of the most common routes but I think the next battle+mage character will go Fighter's Guild/Telvanni route. 

Temple would be great for a monk but I have this thing about the Tribunal main quest.  Basically that going against the gods of the temple while rising in the temple (which implies believing in their gods) to be a conflict of interest.  I may just say it couldn't be helped as it is Amalexia's plan and not yours that gets her killed (who knows). 

However, my real interest in the next character is Assassin type, not just for hire but one who feels killing sometimes is necessary to get things done.  If so then I do not expect the character to become the head of any of the Great Houses since no assanssin wants to be famous but only infamous.  Morag Tong and Thieve's guild are the only guilds I can see with one possibility being Hlaalu via the backdoor way of Duke Dren (asking after becoming Hortator) under the ussumption that only Dren really knows who heads Hlaalu.  This character of course will not use the strongholds or get any house mod (possibly a cave mod) and no Lokken quest (too visible again after completing quest) but possibly Constance as the companion (or make your own using the companion project). He does get to kill anyone he pleases though. 

[cyrano]

Temple would be great for a monk but I have this thing about the Tribunal main quest.  Basically that going against the gods of the temple while rising in the temple (which implies believing in their gods) to be a conflict of interest.  I may just say it couldn't be helped as it is Amalexia's plan and not yours that gets her killed (who knows). 

When I first started playing I joined the imperial cult.  Very early in the main quest I began to suspect that the Temple might have a larger role.  I figured that if I join the Temple I might gain some useful insights–little did I know at the time.  In retrospect, it seems natural to infiltrate the Temple to advance the Blades agenda, so in that light joining the Temple is not a conflict of interest–it’s a means to an end.

But to address the topic, the best great house to join is that which consistent with your character’s development.  Mine is an honorable warrior type, so Redoran seemed appropriate.  Considering the positive relationship between that house and the Temple, it makes joining the latter seem logical.  And yes, I like the variety of quests offered by the Temple.

[Nostra1]

Temple would be great for a monk but I have this thing about the Tribunal main quest. Basically that going against the gods of the temple while rising in the temple (which implies believing in their gods) to be a conflict of interest. I may just say it couldn't be helped as it is Amalexia's plan and not yours that gets her killed (who knows).

When I first started playing I joined the imperial cult. Very early in the main quest I began to suspect that the Temple might have a larger role. I figured that if I join the Temple I might gain some useful insights僕ittle did I know at the time. In retrospect, it seems natural to infiltrate the Temple to advance the Blades agenda, so in that light joining the Temple is not a conflict of interest吠t痴 a means to an end.

But to address the topic, the best great house to join is that which consistent with your character痴 development. Mine is an honorable warrior type, so Redoran seemed appropriate. Considering the positive relationship between that house and the Temple, it makes joining the latter seem logical. And yes, I like the variety of quests offered by the Temple.

Good point, a belief or loyalty to a faction doesn't have to be the only reason to join a faction.  In fact if it was the Assassin character I was thinking, infiltration would be the only reason for him to join the temple.  Join a faction, see the world, get to know people...and kill them.  

[Emma]

Yes, that's also an interesting aspect... joining a faction simply to infiltrate it .
I think I will roleplay that next time, instead of being as honorable as I tend to be in Morrowind. After all, I have Constance as a companion now... 

[Aidan]

I'm a proud follower of Redoran. Yes, they do have a touch of fanatical religeousness to them, and for some reason believe the only good life is a hard life, which conflicts directly with my ethics.

But I cannot - and I mean cannot- stand fact that honour is measured in gold in House Hlaalu, and as for Telvanni... they just creep me out. The Redoran quests are really fun with my new Fighter/Mage character, and the stronghold is great in that it is situated in a remote location, making it useful as a resting and resupplying depot when I am travelling overland on foot.

And I really like the last quest for House Redoran- spitting that accursed xenophobe Bolvyn Venim on my spear!

Loyal to Redoran all the way.

[Son of Llorrac]

I think telvani once u get past the need for levitate they r cool. THey also are 1 of the only ways to summon a sphere centrion.

[Gez]

I've tried them all,my favs are the Hlaalu though, then the Redoran. Despite my favorite type of characters being mages.

The two constants in my characters have been loyalty to the Empire and anti-slavery militantism.

for the Imperial Legion, the guards are annoying when they say "Where is your uniform" constantly ; but at least when you outrank them they stop commenting on your clothings. BTW I recommend this because the standard female body part for it is ugly IMO.

[osiris]

*Bangs fist on the table*
TELVANNI!
Telvanni are the best! The best Stronghold, Nice leaders (er..yeah) and all that jazz. Go Telvanni!

Pardon, what??? Tewlvanni are the best???

[Aidan]

I think telvani once u get past the need for levitate they r cool. THey also are 1 of the only ways to summon a sphere centrion.

Sphere centurions aren't that great.

[Emma]

I think telvani once u get past the need for levitate they r cool. THey also are 1 of the only ways to summon a sphere centrion.

Sphere centurion's aren't that great.

Well, maybe this guy would make it worth it to be a Telvanni .

[Seeker]

Hail!

Interesting fellow. After reading the description, it my be high time to try him out for me. Thnaks for pointing me his way, Emma! 

Seeker

[Aidan]

[Well, maybe this guy would make it worth it to be a Telvanni .

Yes, that probably just might... But I am still loyal to Redoran!

Edit: Yay... I've been 'upgraded' to a *beggar*...

[Hand of Sotha]

Seeker's

Hail!

Interesting fellow. After reading the description, it my be high time to try him out for me. Thnaks for pointing me his way, Emma! 

Seeker

So my recommendation from when that companion was released was not good enough for ye, eh? 

These Telvanni, never listening to those whose House rank is lower ...




Hand of Sotha

[Seeker]

...erm...

Yes, of course! Now, be gone, lowly Leader of the Temple!  ...........
---------------
No, really - I completely forgot about this one. Emma actually reminded me of it again, which prompted me to take a look and remember...

Ah, welll.

Seeker

[AlAraan]

Hm, I tried all houses as well, but never progressed in Hlaalu due to some bug in my save game.

Imho, Redoran people are too uptight  I prefer Telvanni. I play mostly variations of the nightblade archetype (i.e. sneaky magic user =P), so Telvanni seem to work best, with their variable morals and all 

I just love the way they state their rules... "If you stole from a member and survived, you deserve the item you stole" sounds amoral enough for my chars 

As for MT, I actually find them to be among the most honorable guilds, even though they are a guild of hired killers... Their lawful, upfront approach to the business seems to appeal to me.

[Zylox]

I like House Hlaalu as you could probably guess from the mod I am working on, House Hlaalu Adoption, but I am interested in joining House Telvanni as well. I know that there are mods which allow you to joiin both houses(or all three). The trouble is that they are not very pure as far as lore goes. After all, Hlaalu and Telvanni are fighting each other, so they would not be very likely to let you be a member of both houses.

Then I started thinking that House Hlaalu is known for being rather sneaky and underhanded at times. Crasius gives you a quest that has you working undercover. Now, if you prove yourself to him at that point and you are skilled at magixc, it is possible that he would want you to infiltrate House Telvanni

I am thinking of making a mod were you join House Hlaalu, work your way up to Kinsman, then Crasius tells you he is considering you for a special assignment. Once you complete the first regular job for him as a Kinsman, the one involving spying, he asks you to infiltrate House Telvanni and report back to him about each quest you are given. Most of the quests he will tell you to go ahead and complete for the Telvanni, but some of them he will have other instructions for you to carry out.

Some of the restrictions in this mod are that you will not advance any higher than Kinsman in House Hlaalu, you will not be able to become Magistar or Archmagistar in House Telvani without angering all of House Hlaalu, and you will only be able to build the Telvanni stronghold. Also, the Mages Guild will probably not be too thrilled by your actions.

Does this sounjd like something people would be interested in? Also, does it sound reasonable from a lore perspective?

[Seeker]

Hello, Zylox! 

Personally, I have every house covered with one extra crafted PC who fits it and, being quite the Telvanni "sympathizer" (at least Cincaid does, albeit is more open-minded...), I perhaps wouldn't use such a mod - but, do not mistake my meaning, I think that this idea is quite interesting for a mod...especially for those players who do not have a problem working with Uncle Crassuis...

If you would do a mod like this, however, maybe some thoughts should go into the actions of the Telvanni as well, I think they are quite knowledgeable and powerful (and unscrupulous... ), so they would perhaps have ways to find out such a major intrusion in their ranks, especially by an outlander, where they might be suspicious about his loyalties from the start...many high-ranking Telvanni seem QUITE paranoid about such things...

So, if this would not be a "let's take on the evil but blind Telvanni", I would be all for it, even it if would not fit one of my PCs, I can imagine, there might be many players out there who would be very interested in this...

Take care,

Seeker

[Hand of Sotha]

Zylox'

I like House Hlaalu as you could probably guess from the mod I am working on, House Hlaalu Adoption, but I am interested in joining House Telvanni as well. I know that there are mods which allow you to joiin both houses(or all three). The trouble is that they are not very pure as far as lore goes. After all, Hlaalu and Telvanni are fighting each other, so they would not be very likely to let you be a member of both houses.

Then I started thinking that House Hlaalu is known for being rather sneaky and underhanded at times. Crasius gives you a quest that has you working undercover. Now, if you prove yourself to him at that point and you are skilled at magixc, it is possible that he would want you to infiltrate House Telvanni

I am thinking of making a mod were you join House Hlaalu, work your way up to Kinsman, then Crasius tells you he is considering you for a special assignment. Once you complete the first regular job for him as a Kinsman, the one involving spying, he asks you to infiltrate House Telvanni and report back to him about each quest you are given. Most of the quests he will tell you to go ahead and complete for the Telvanni, but some of them he will have other instructions for you to carry out.

Some of the restrictions in this mod are that you will not advance any higher than Kinsman in House Hlaalu, you will not be able to become Magistar or Archmagistar in House Telvani without angering all of House Hlaalu, and you will only be able to build the Telvanni stronghold. Also, the Mages Guild will probably not be too thrilled by your actions.

Does this sounjd like something people would be interested in? Also, does it sound reasonable from a lore perspective?

Being a Hlaalu player who's very interested in the Telvanni as well, that concept sounds very intriguing to me!    (Especially as I, too, am not too fond of using cheats to join more than one Great House ... Too much of a Lore Hound, I guess.  )

The worst trouble spots I can see so far would be

1. The building of a second stronghold (especially as the strongholds are automatically built at the exact same time, aren't they?) and the following quest to kill both masters of the "rival" strongholds ... which would then include suicide ...

2. The Telvanni Hortator ques... wait, on second thought, that shouldn't be a problem, story-wise, should it? The Telvanni don't react differently to a Hortator wannabe, just because he/she's from another Great House - except maybe for a wannabe who's their own Archmagister at the same time. Right?

So only the first trouble spot remains - and I guess it's a purely technical problem that is quite solvable. (At least I hope that!  )

Well, I would say that with some skillful storytelling, this could become a very good mod! Seeker's point about not depicting the Telvanni as dumb fools is valid, of course ... but that's just one of the spots where skillful storytelling comes in!    And after all, you yourself wrote ...

Zylox'

[...] but I am interested in joining House Telvanni as well.

Doesn't sound like there's much danger of you misrepresenting the Telvanni, eh? 


Hand of Sotha

[Zylox]

Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement. As far as your concerns...

1) The Telvanni will be suspicious, since they will know that you are a former member of House Hlaalu. They will belive that you have been expelled from House Hlaalu, as will most members of House Hlaalu. There will be a way for you to let Hlaalu people know you are undercover, perhaps a signet ring given to you by Crassius. You should not wear the ring around the Telvanni or the Camona Tong. You will have to do several quests to prove your loyalty to the Telvanni, but they like the idea of getting someone who knows the workings of House Hlaalu. If you betray House Hlaalu by becoming the Archmagistar of House Telvanni, the Telvanni are likely to get an annonymous message informing them you are an Hlaalu spy. That could be akward

2) As far as the two strongholds, they are built at the same time, but being in two houses would not make any difference. You would need to have both sets of journal entries (HH_Stronghold & HT_Stronghold) in order to have possession of both strongholds. You will not have both strongholds. Since you are trying to portray yourself as a disgraced former member of House Hlaalu, having the Hlaalu stronghold would not be appropriate. I will disable the ability to build the Hlaalu stronghold through dialog so that the only one you can build is the Telvanni stronghold.

3) This should not affect the Hortator quest, although I will look into that. Telvani should not have a problem with a member of their house becoming Hortator, but Hlaalu may have a problem with an expelled member becoming Hortator. Crassius will not trust most of the other council members enough to let them in on his scheme, although he may have you inform one of them(the hidden one, Bram Dero?). The regular story line has a way to work around the objections of the other council members, so that won't be a problem.

4) There are several quests for the Telvanni that involve attacking House Hlaalu. I will make alternate outcomes for these which will satisfy the Telvani and allow you to complete the quests.

Finally, yes you will get lots of new and exciting interactions with Uncle Crassius

[Seeker]

Hail, Zylox! 

Now, THAT definitely sounds good to me!  I like the way Hlaalu and Telvanni conduct themselves in their little schemes in your mod - your ideas are spot on and fitting the premise, IMHO! Not having both strongholds is a necessity, given the quasi-expelled status of the PC... 
Sounds so good in fact, that I am thinking about creating a new PC just to test it with...
I am looking forward to what you are doing with it, the story itself is great this way - I would be thrilled to know how it ends, when you've risen enough in the ranks of the Telvanni, because you can't rise to Archmage or Grandmaster, can you?
Anyway, I see the makings of a great story! 
And more interaction with Uncle Crassius...erm...spiffy... !

Seeker

[kaffeend]

I've always been a Great House Hlaalu guy, because I started out in Balmora and when I first played Morrowind I wasn't aware that there were any other houses.  For some reason, Telvanni creeps me out, and it's too far away from my preferred part of Vardenfell.  Same could be said of Ald'ruhn with the ugly grey landscape and millions of annoying cliff racers/ash storms.  Why anyone would want a Stronghold in that god-forsaken wasteland is beyond me.  Anyway, Hlaalu is the most civilized and open minded of the Great Houses, and the 1 I prefer.  And as for dear old Uncle Crassius, he's charming if you take the time to understand him - and lonely.  I feel sorry for the guy.  I'd love to be able to go and visit him, after becoming Grandmaster and Hortator, just knowing that it would make his day.

[Aidan]

Hlaalu is the most civilized and open minded of the Great Houses,

 
What? if 'civilised' means corrupt, avaricious and amoral then yes...
Honestly though, Hlaalu is only open minded because they can make a profit from it. If living a strict, honourable life made money for them, they would do just that. They don't even bother to adhere to their own culture... and they not only support but work hand in hand with that evil, twisted organisation, the Camonna Tong. 
NO, I wouldn't call Hlaalu civilised. They just hide behind the mask of the Empire so that the rest of the world doesn't see them for the scumbags they are.

Loyal to Redoran all they way!

[Aidan]

is the most civilized and open minded of the Great Houses, and the 1 I prefer. And as for dear old Uncle Crassius, he's charming if you take the time to understand him - and lonely. I feel sorry for the guy. I'd love to be able to go and visit him, after becoming Grandmaster and Hortator, just knowing that it would make his day.

Aaaaaah!!! That's it, I'm creeped out.

[Jenn]

Having played in all the Houses and gotten to the top of all of them, I have to say it really just depends on your PC at the time.

Some of mine of honourable fighters, that find the bribed and backstabbing in Hlaalu degrading, and the oddities of the Telvanni just to weird to think about, so they go Redoran.

Others find the haughty rightousness of Redoran to much, when things need to get done you do them, and you coming out on top is always at the top of your list of priorities, and lack all magical talent,so they go Hlaalu.

My mages love Telvanni, they just play the house in whatever way they work, if they are evil near necromancers they do anything they can by any means to get it done. If they are good kind mages they find other ways to complete tasks.

So as you can see it really all depends on who the PC is! 

[kaffeend]

So as you can see it really all depends on who the PC is! 

You know, for the life of me I only seem to enjoy playing the same character type - over and over again - the male Nord|Warrior|Battlemage type... Hlaalu, Fighters' Guild.  Wonder if that's a reflection of my actual persona? Hmmm...
 

[cyrano]

I am thinking of making a mod were you join House Hlaalu, work your way up to Kinsman, then Crasius tells you he is considering you for a special assignment. Once you complete the first regular job for him as a Kinsman, the one involving spying, he asks you to infiltrate House Telvanni and report back to him about each quest you are given. Most of the quests he will tell you to go ahead and complete for the Telvanni, but some of them he will have other instructions for you to carry out.

Some of the restrictions in this mod are that you will not advance any higher than Kinsman in House Hlaalu, you will not be able to become Magistar or Archmagistar in House Telvani without angering all of House Hlaalu, and you will only be able to build the Telvanni stronghold. Also, the Mages Guild will probably not be too thrilled by your actions.

Does this sounjd like something people would be interested in? Also, does it sound reasonable from a lore perspective?

I think that this is a very promising idea for a mod and encourage you to pursue it.  There can be some conflicts between Hlaalu and Telvanni quests, but since those are predictable I believe that the obstacles could be circumvented with surreptitious journal entry settings and judicious disabling of NPCs.

[Aidan]

So as you can see it really all depends on who the PC is!

You know, for the life of me I only seem to enjoy playing the same character type - over and over again - the male Nord|Warrior|Battlemage type... Hlaalu, Fighters' Guild. Wonder if that's a reflection of my actual persona? Hmmm...
 

Yes, your alignment in Morrowind politics does depend on your carachter, doesn't it. And seeing as I always play as 'myself' (ie. acting as close to my own personality as possible), I am rather attached to the House Redoran. Especially since it is the only house where you can actually trust your fellows. I would hate to be in Hlaalu or Telvanni, always having to watch my back...(I may be paranoid, but it doesn't mean people aren't following me... )   

 And anyway, Great House Redoran is the only house whose actions are morally defensible.

[Gez]

And anyway, Great House Redoran is the only house whose actions are morally defensible.

Depends. The Redoran insist more on honor, but that doesn't prevent them from being sometimes wicked (e.g., Bolvyn Venim, who practice kidnapping and blackmail). Hlaalu are opportunistic, but they do have their noble souls (e.g., Ilmeni Dren who helps the Twin Lamps), and the Telvanni are ruthless competing for power but they also have some members disinterested in these futile power plays (e.g., Divayth Fyr who created the Corprusarium in an attempt to find a cure to the vile corprus disease).

[Seeker]

The last two posts bring it home to me that every house has it's light and dark sides, ethically - and even if the Telvanni are generally considered Evil & Scheming (TM), my open-minded outlander archmage is glad for every exception...

Seeker

[kaffeend]

Let us not forget that most of us are the HEADS of our respective houses, and it's up to US to allow or deny corruption and extortion within our beloved House.  Just a thought.

[Jenn]

To bad one you do get to the top of the House you can't clean it up a bit, that would rock!

[Zylox]

I wanted to let anyone who is interested in the mod I described earlier know that I am starting a WIP thread to discuss it.

[Candyman]

As much as I like all the intrigue, deception, backstabbing, and power plays that goes on in each house, guild and faction (it’s politics, and politics is dirty business), I always found it unrealistic how quickly you can make it from a “nobody” to the head of the faction.

In that respect I think Bloodmoon did it better. You don’t become head of the ENTIRE faction, just a small division of it. (although I’ve never finished that part of Bloodmoon because I always sympathized with the people who wanted to kick the jerks who were raping the land off the island. If BM allowed a choice, I’d work against Ravenrock. Hehe)

[cyrano]

While sketching a profile for Tiram Gadar, the Telvanni spy embedded in the Mages Guild of Vivec, with Seeker who has agreed to develop Tiram for the LGNPC Project I have formed an idea for a quest mod along the lines Zylox is developing.  Inspired by the open discussion of ruthless House politics in this thread, I decided it would be great fun to make Tiram a quest-giver on behalf of House Telvanni to send the player on sabotage missions against the Mages Guild.  The player will have to be a member of Telvanni, but will only join the Mages Guild in order to gain access and foil Guild business.  This will absolutely conflict with the normal execution of official Mages Guild quests!  When the player is given the quest to escort the scholar to Pelagiad and acquire his research, the player has the option to deliver it to Tiram (and therefore Telvanni) instead.  Dialog will be added to allow the player a pretense for his/her failure to complete the Mages Guild quest so the next will be offered.  Virtually every Mages Guild quest could be corrupted in some fashion…such fun!  While it will be some time before I can begin on this project, I thought a hint of what is in the works would be appropriate in this thread.

[Zylox]

Cyrano, I like your idea about corrupting the mage guild quests. I have a couple of suggestions for your mod.

First, you may want to make it possible for an existing member of the mages guild who joins the Telvanni to do these quests since I suspect that most people are likely to join the Mages Guild long before they get anywhere near Sadrith Mora.

Second, probably not all of the Mage Guild quests would be subverted. Some of them the Telvanni just would not care about, for wxample getting a ceramic bowl for Ajira.

Third, the example you gave of giving the notes to the Telvanni could be altered so that the Telvanni copy the notes, then you give the originals back to the person who gave you the original quest. This is how I am going to run the "deliver the coded message" quest given by the Telvanni.

Fourth, the Telvanni probably do not want you to become Archmage of the Mages Guild. They already have a tame Archmage in power who they can control. Also, if you become Archmage they may be concerned that you are too likely to start running the Mages Guild for your self rather than representing Telvanni interests.

I hope that some of these ideas are helpful.

[cyrano]

Excellent thoughts all of them, I thank you. 

I first intended the mod will be advertised from the beginning that it is intended to run afoul of the Mages Guild quests.  Players that will use it will know that they are Telvanni agents that have infiltrated the Mages guild.  However, since that restricts the use of the mod for new games, I can introduce a provision that the player be recruited by the Telvanni to become a mole in the Mages Guild for those that already belong to the Guild.

Certainly some quests are beneath the notice of Great House Telvanni.  Allowing the player to complete some of the Mages Guild quests is necessary for the player to advance a little in the Guild as well as maintain some level of credibility with the Guild stewards.

I have a variation on the research papers quests (although it would not be appropriate with the coded message quests) where the player returns to the Mages Guild with papers that have been forged to provide useless or misleading information to further confound the Guild.

And yes, I agree that the player’s advancement in the Mages guild should be restricted–in fact, it would be rather stunted already by the players ‘inability’ to complete official quests.

Edit: Even more fun–when the player is assigned the quest to uncover the Telvanni spy (Tiram) he plants false evidence to condemn another member of the guild and preserve the cover of Tiram.  Of course, it is a bit implausible that the Guild would entrust that particular quest with someone as ‘incompetent’ as the player.

[Candyman]

There should also be a mod that sends a Mage's Guild member to infiltrate the Telvanni.

And, just to make it even more fun,  it should work with the other mod... so if you REALLY wanted to, you could play both sides against each other (and get them both seriously P.O'd at you if they find out!)

[Zylox]

Candyman, I am leaning toward including the idea of spying for the Mages Guild into my Hlaalu Spy mod. You might want to check out my WIP thread here in Emma's WIP forum. I don't know that my mod will be compatible with the one Cyrano is thinking of making. Your character will have completly different motivations for the two mods. In mine, you are a loyal Hlaalu and perhaps Mage Guild member and in his you are a loyal Telvanni. If you combine the two and anyone finds out about you, you could accomplish something that no one ever thought was possible: an alliance of the Mages Guild, Telvanni, and Hlaalu for the purpose of hunting you down and killing you

There are also practical problems with having our two mods(and possibley a third) compatible. In order to have the mods work on there own, they will each change several quests given by each of the factions. This will cause built in conflicts between the mods. While my mod will probably only affect one of the Mages Guild quests, namely the Telvanni Spy quest, it sounds like Cyrano is likely to go in a different direction with his version of the quest than I am. Cyrano sounds like he will have the spy give you assignments, and I am likely to have him die or at least go into hiding, so right there is a major conflict between the mods.

It might be possible for each of us to set up an option for the player to become a double agent, but that would be more complex...

[Aidan]

And anyway, Great House Redoran is the only house whose actions are morally defensible.

Depends. The Redoran insist more on honor, but that doesn't prevent them from being sometimes wicked (e.g., Bolvyn Venim, who practice kidnapping and blackmail). Hlaalu are opportunistic, but they do have their noble souls (e.g., Ilmeni Dren who helps the Twin Lamps), and the Telvanni are ruthless competing for power but they also have some members disinterested in these futile power plays (e.g., Divayth Fyr who created the Corprusarium in an attempt to find a cure to the vile corprus disease).

You're right, but you notice that Redoran has a bad exception while Hlaalu and Telvanni have good exeptions. I'm not saying Redoran are perfect, (I hate those fool who let religion govern their lives) but then again, Bolvyn Venim is not a good Redoran. In fact, he is constantly working against you, and uses the aforementioned kidnapping and blackmail to keep control of House Redoran in a very Hlaalu-Like way... 

[Gez]

You're right, but you notice that Redoran has a bad exception while Hlaalu and Telvanni have good exeptions. I'm not saying Redoran are perfect, (I hate those fool who let religion govern their lives) but then again, Bolvyn Venim is not a good Redoran. In fact, he is constantly working against you, and uses the aforementioned kidnapping and blackmail to keep control of House Redoran in a very Hlaalu-Like way... 

He's also the leader. (And by the way, the one who decided to move the Redoran Headquarters to Vvardenfell. Balmora and Sadrith Mora are just regional HQs, with the real HQs at Narsis and Port Telvannis. Venim is the leader of ALL of House Redoran, while Gothren and Orvas Dren are only in charge of the Vvardenfell district of their houses.)

[kaffeend]

Not anymore he's not - lol - Poor Bolvyn.... Too slow.   

[Aidan]

You're right, but you notice that Redoran has a bad exception while Hlaalu and Telvanni have good exeptions. I'm not saying Redoran are perfect, (I hate those fool who let religion govern their lives) but then again, Bolvyn Venim is not a good Redoran. In fact, he is constantly working against you, and uses the aforementioned kidnapping and blackmail to keep control of House Redoran in a very Hlaalu-Like way...

He's also the leader. (And by the way, the one who decided to move the Redoran Headquarters to Vvardenfell. Balmora and Sadrith Mora are just regional HQs, with the real HQs at Narsis and Port Telvannis. Venim is the leader of ALL of House Redoran, while Gothren and Orvas Dren are only in charge of the Vvardenfell district of their houses.)

Correct.
But lets take a look at a real life example.
In a similar manner, George.W.Bush is president of the USA. If he were an example of the average American, then the people of the largest economic power in the world would be hyper-religious, warlike, and have a combined IQ lower than the average room temperature. Thankfully this is not the case. This shows that leaders often do not actually represent the people.
(sorry for getting political, but I needed an example)